shadowkat: (Default)
[personal profile] shadowkat
1. Yes, I know everyone is bored of the Whedon thing. But, this is kind of interesting. I found it finally on Twitter - it's about what lay behind the whole CC reveal, and those who followed. Hint - it wasn't about Buffy or the Marvel movies or for that matter, The Nevers. No, it is about Whedon's long running attempt to get into the DC film verse after leaving the Marvel film verse.

Or rather it's about the Zack Snyder Justice League film that Whedon took over. I don't know if you saw the Whedon version? I did. Or read about what was happening behind the scenes at the time - I did. Or saw all the films in the DC verse prior - I did. I'm a fan of superhero flicks and superhero comics, goes back to my college days, when I discovered the medium. I remember doing my thesis next to a guy in a library basement - typing away at computers in the 1989. The guy basically looked like Billy Idol except with curly hair. It was the 1980s and he was into punk rock and comics. He was doing his thesis on the death of the superhero in the graphic novel medium, specifically Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, Red Son, and the Watchmen. I'd read all three - we had a very long discussion about it. This was long before we got good superhero flicks.

Anyhow, I've read a lot of the comics here and there, and seen all of the films in the franchise. With a few exceptions here and there. Also a good portion of the animated ones (not all, but a portion) and a portion of the television series.

Snyder had a mixed reviews - Snyder is a painter. His background is in high art. And he's a director - dealing mainly with visuals and FX. He also works in film - as most directors do, not digitial. Prefers film.
Watching a Snyder film is akin to watching a painting. Or being immersed in a visual world. His films often work best on a big screen. He's not really a writer - Nolan's brother tends to write Snyder's films, he's a director first and foremost - and works very well with people. The cast on Snyder's films - were his friends. His battles were with the WB, Geoff Johns (the comic book writer) and the studio heads - who wanted him to cut his film down to size, lighten it up a bit, etc.

What happened? Snyder's daughter died by suicide and he got tired of fighting the WB, and put his family first. The rest of the story is...appalling to say the least. And complicated.

You can find it HERE. It does not show various film critics, comic artists, comic fans, Whedon fans, Whedon, WB or comic writers in the best light. They basically took advantage of someone else's tragic loss for their own personal gain. It is appalling. They also lied about it.

It's an interesting read - because it shows how difficult the film industry can be and why so many go off and do their own things.

At any rate - there's apparently a Snyder Cut of Justice League premiering on HBO MAX tonight - ETA, misread, it's dropping 3/18/2021 - March. It's four hours long. And none of it includes Whedon's footage. Also, only five minutes of it were shot during the pandemic and after 2017. And Whedon's version only contained five 30 minutes of the original Zack Snyder cut - which is possibly why - the re-shoot was hell on wheels - because they basically re-shot the entire movie in less than four months. Cutting everything they did previously. After already shooting and working their asses off on the previous version. AND - various actors ended up with their scenes cut completely. It was - if you can imagine - shooting an entire movie over two years, only to have the director you've bonded with - get fired after his daughter died from suicide - and have a new director that you don't know jump in and throw his weight around. Force you to work hard and long hours, and say lines that you don't feel were in character, and do it in breakneck time, and act as if everything you did the past two years was pointless.

I'd have wanted to skewer Whedon and the WB for that alone. I don't blame the cast for hating them. Add to that - Whedon's version bombed, and the actors struggled afterwards. Plus the anticipated sequel was cancelled.

Now, finally, they get to see the version they worked hard on and were proud of - air. (They spent years trying to get to this point. The previous film aired in 2017.)

I can't see it tonight, but I'll try to see it over the weekend. I'm curious. Although - I'm not really a huge fan of Snyder's films - they give me a headache - all the fight scenes are like paintings, but also feel like watching a video game. So we'll see if I make it through it.

The twitter feeds mentioned Chris Helmsworth has been indicating issues with Whedon for years. So I looked.

Recalls Joss Whedons fury when Avengers Cast Kept Screwing up a Take

I think writers make bad directors for the most part.

2. Winter Storm and Texas Power Outage Map

Texas wanted its own power Grid to avoid the Federal Government - Now What?

Ted Cruz is not having a good year. Nor for that matter is Texas.

But I feel for my poor family members. I have three cousins, their kids, and youngest Aunt in Texas. I'd prefer that they be okay. So far they are.

3. Footloose or Dancing in the Movies



Off to bed. Assuming they quiet down upstairs. It is quiet. It just sounds like someone is moving furniture above me every once and a while.

Date: 2021-02-19 06:52 am (UTC)
deird1: image of the stargate, with text "an invitation to Daniel Jackson's annual wake" (Daniel wake)
From: [personal profile] deird1
And Whedon's version only contained five minutes of the original Zack Snyder cut

Wow. I didn't realise it had been THAT drastic.

I want to know if Snyder's cut is going to get a DVD release.

Date: 2021-02-19 05:11 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Tony Stark Snaps (AVEN-TonySnap-megascopes)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
The tweets mention there were only 30 minutes kept, not 5. That still means the bulk of the movie was reshot but not entirely.

Date: 2021-02-19 12:14 pm (UTC)
kingstoken: (Rowena with wings art)
From: [personal profile] kingstoken
That vid is so fun, and well put together

Date: 2021-02-19 05:14 pm (UTC)
jesuswasbatman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jesuswasbatman
The pro-Snyder fans don't deserve to come out of this well either, though. Because Snyder's films were dark and gory and macho and (were at least perceived as) "Hard Men need to make the Hard Choice to kill", there was a significant overlap between pro-Snyder fans and far-right-wing fans of the "any superhero who isn't a straight white man, or occasionally a straight-ish white woman whose body is constantly shown off for me to drool over, is evil socialist propaganda and a personal attack on me" variety. And the latter also hated Whedon because they thought he was pro-feminist, and attacked anybody who was associated with the studio or DC, or wasn't pro-Snyder, with all the charm and restraint for which they're famous.

Date: 2021-02-20 05:38 pm (UTC)
elisi: Edwin and Charles (Default)
From: [personal profile] elisi
Opened this in a tab a few days ago to come back to when I had more time... Thank you for all this - I have very little interest in superhero stuff, so never was never really aware of any of this.

Date: 2021-02-22 08:07 am (UTC)
elisi: (Above and below)
From: [personal profile] elisi
I guess all this highlights why people don't speak up... Because it's he said/she said and people don't take it seriously or think it's sour grapes. And going public usually means that the person making allegations gets blacklisted. :(

Date: 2021-02-24 07:39 pm (UTC)
elisi: (Spike)
From: [personal profile] elisi
But, there's a wealth of information on youtube right now
You are a cornucopia of information!

" not really, I was never really directed by Joss. For some reason he never wanted to direct me. He'd have someone else do it. If Joss was directing - I knew I wasn't in the scene."
Huh. I don't think I knew that. That's... I don't even know. Although surely he directed the flaming hands, I remember the directions. (But the point still stands.)

Marsters by that stage was kind of used to it - it's why he charges so much on guest appearances on television series. And it's why he charged so much to appear on Angel.
Yikes. I hope he had some good experiences too. :(

Date: 2021-03-03 07:48 pm (UTC)
elisi: (Spike)
From: [personal profile] elisi
I get bored and surf the net at night sometimes - and it's all on Youtube. LOL! Also Marsters is insanely fun to listen to - the man is a wealth of information and has no shame. Charisma/Marsters and Brendan/Marsters are hilarious, because they'll often answer for him.
Thank you for the tip, if I have spare time I'll make a point of looking him/them up. :)

I think Whedon did, but it wasn't memorable? The man had years in theater - and at Juillard. He'd seen worse than Whedon.
Yeah... Also, he - like ASH - was older than the main cast. I think that probably made a big difference. And someone linked me to this which shows the issues Joss had on Avengers and how his approach may not have worked as well on Big Name Actors as on his own creations. ;)

Marsters does say in an interview that after he worked with CC on Supernatural - he was shocked by how great she was. And personable. He'd heard horrible stories about her for years - and she was nothing like that. (So, she really had a difficult experience on Buffy and Angel.)
Poor CC. Also 'Difficult to work with' is clearly just a code...

But my god...that was not a safe set. They had Boreanze do his own stunts in Destiney, when he had damaged knee. He had to fight them to ensure he didn't hurt it even more.
I wish that didn't echo all kinds of other stories, but I'm reminded of Uma Thurman and Tarantino and it's clearly just the tip of the iceberg in that field of work.

/very late reply, time just disappeared

Date: 2021-03-07 04:26 pm (UTC)
elisi: Edwin and Charles (Default)
From: [personal profile] elisi
If you do look up Q&A's? Look before 2014, the early stuff - is better.
In answer to your question: Occasionally. Although if I do I'll make sure to find the early stuff.

Or Jon Faverau - Jon wrote for Obama, and is a top actor and director, and started the franchise with Iron Man. (I just finished Obama's Promised Land and he mentions him.)
I remember Jon from... 2008? That whole election was like a fandom. :)

They had real issues with the actress, which unfortunately hurt her later. That doesn't excuse how Whedon handled it. But, CC wasn't completely blameless either.
I was sort of thinking more generally (although that obviously did not come across) - how phrases might have an aspect of truth and yet become a shorthand for something else. So an actress who is 'difficult to work with' can genuinely be difficult, but it's more of a way to describe someone who is unofficially blacklisted. Like how 'economic anxiety' is used for Trump voters, or 'Wants to spend more time with his family' for a politician caught having an affair who decides to resign. Whatever their literal meaning, phrases like that come with connotations and can't be taken at face value. (We've yet to finish Bojack, but one of the story lines is about this very thing. The actress in question IS 'difficult to work with, but it's much more complex than that.) Like you say, it's never black or white.

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