![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatI just flipped on The Buffy Marathon on Syfy...and the speech I landed on was..."and then there's people, millions of people, like happy meals on legs.." hence the above title reference. The series looks sort of low-budget in 2013, with the square screen and the lack of digital filming. But the writing is whip-smart. Just the right edge of wit married to pathos. Just in case, you may decide to take it too seriously, the writers always throw in a joke or two to ensure you don't.
Although the marathon choices are rather interesting - almost as if someone voted on which were the best episodes of the entire series, or the most plot-worthy, and only chose those for the marathon.
If you are curious here they are:
1)Welcome To The Hellmouth
2)The Harvest
3)Angel
4)Becoming - Part 1
5)Becoming - Part 2
6)Faith, Hope And Trick
7)Lovers Walk
8)The Wish
9)Bad Girls
10)Doppelgangland
11)Graduation Day - Part 1
12) Graduation Day - Part 2
13)Hush
14)Buffy Vs. Dracula
15)Fool For Love
16)Crush
17)The Body
18)Once More, With Feeling
19)Normal Again
20) Chosen
Clearly whomever did this list was not a fan of S7, S6, S4, or S2 for that matter. Yet quite adored S3 (actually S3 was obviously their favorite) and S5, with S1 coming in 3rd. No love for S7 though. Then again it is admittedly plot/mythology specific.
This is not the list I'd have chosen for a 20 episode marathon. Then again I'm struggling to figure out what list I would do. A Non-Plot oriented one for people who know the series and don't care, or plot-oriented? This is actually a lot harder than I thought. Buffy has arguably about 15-20 excellent episodes, but it's such a serial that you sort of have to put the not so great one's in there to figure out what is going on.
1. Welcome to the Hellmouth
2. Harvest
3. Angel
4. Lie to Me
5. Surpise
6. Innocence
7. Passion
8.Becoming Part I
9. Becoming Part II
10. Lover's Walk
11. The Wish
12. Dopplegangeland
13. Graduation Day I
14. Graduation Day II
15. HUSH
16. RESTLESS
17. Fool For Love
18. The Body
19. Once More With Feeling
20. Chosen
See? Hard.
Or Take II
1. Angel
2. School Hard
3. Lie to Me
4. Becoming I
5. Becoming Part II
6. Lover's Walk
7. The Wish
8. Dopplegangland
9. Graduation Day I
10. Graduation Day II
11. HUSH
12. This Year's Girl
13. Who Are You
14. Restless
15. Fool for Love
16. The Body
17. Once More with Feeling
18. Beneath You
19. Conversations with Dead People
20. Chosen
or Take III - the 15-20 arguably excellent/memorable episodes:
1. Lie to Me
2. Innocence
3. Passion
4. Becoming I
5. Becoming II
6. Lover's Walk
7. Dopplegangland
8. Hush
9. This Year's Girl
10. Who Are You
11. Restless
12. Fool for Love
13. Crush
14. The Body
15. Once More with Feeling
16. Dead Things
17. Normal Again
18. Beneath Me
19. Conversations with Dead People
20. Lies My Parents Told Me
I don't know. Glad I don't have to do that for a living.
Anyhow...back when I was watching Buffy in the late 1990s, during my gig at the evil library reference company...I had the following conversation with a work colleague/friend on the way home from work. We often rode the subway home together, having long chats about a variety of topics. Not Buffy - she considered it beneath her. Cultural dissonance exists in all climes.
Me: I can't seem to read anything. I get a few pages in and my attention wanders. What is wrong with me?
CW: Your working hard, brain is filled with info, can't fit more in. Plus stress. What you need is...a HAPPY BOOK.
Me: Didn't realize book's had emotions.
CW: No, I mean something light, stress reducing, fluffy, you don't have to remember, keep track of characters, can just enjoy. A light breezy read. (PAUSE) Have you ever read PD Wodehouse?
Now coming up with a list of light breezy books that aren't violent and are well-written isn't easy. Also by different authors. So far...I've come up with the following, but I've read them all:
* PD Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster
* William Goldman's Princess Bride (although not sure it qualifies)
* Harry Potter (again not sure it qualifies and a children's book)
Not sure of anything else. Jane Austen is almost too deep as is Louisa May Alcott. Terry Prachett is too punny and requires attention to foot-notes. Mark Twain requires too much concentration - he's a precise writer.
And I'm not talking about "airplane books" - ie the thriller or mystery of the week series or Gerogette Heyer. I mean fluffy books, that are witty. Are there any? I know there are for kids and young adults, which may explain the sudden influx of adult readers of young adult novels. But I burned out that genre a while ago.
Although the marathon choices are rather interesting - almost as if someone voted on which were the best episodes of the entire series, or the most plot-worthy, and only chose those for the marathon.
If you are curious here they are:
1)Welcome To The Hellmouth
2)The Harvest
3)Angel
4)Becoming - Part 1
5)Becoming - Part 2
6)Faith, Hope And Trick
7)Lovers Walk
8)The Wish
9)Bad Girls
10)Doppelgangland
11)Graduation Day - Part 1
12) Graduation Day - Part 2
13)Hush
14)Buffy Vs. Dracula
15)Fool For Love
16)Crush
17)The Body
18)Once More, With Feeling
19)Normal Again
20) Chosen
Clearly whomever did this list was not a fan of S7, S6, S4, or S2 for that matter. Yet quite adored S3 (actually S3 was obviously their favorite) and S5, with S1 coming in 3rd. No love for S7 though. Then again it is admittedly plot/mythology specific.
This is not the list I'd have chosen for a 20 episode marathon. Then again I'm struggling to figure out what list I would do. A Non-Plot oriented one for people who know the series and don't care, or plot-oriented? This is actually a lot harder than I thought. Buffy has arguably about 15-20 excellent episodes, but it's such a serial that you sort of have to put the not so great one's in there to figure out what is going on.
1. Welcome to the Hellmouth
2. Harvest
3. Angel
4. Lie to Me
5. Surpise
6. Innocence
7. Passion
8.Becoming Part I
9. Becoming Part II
10. Lover's Walk
11. The Wish
12. Dopplegangeland
13. Graduation Day I
14. Graduation Day II
15. HUSH
16. RESTLESS
17. Fool For Love
18. The Body
19. Once More With Feeling
20. Chosen
See? Hard.
Or Take II
1. Angel
2. School Hard
3. Lie to Me
4. Becoming I
5. Becoming Part II
6. Lover's Walk
7. The Wish
8. Dopplegangland
9. Graduation Day I
10. Graduation Day II
11. HUSH
12. This Year's Girl
13. Who Are You
14. Restless
15. Fool for Love
16. The Body
17. Once More with Feeling
18. Beneath You
19. Conversations with Dead People
20. Chosen
or Take III - the 15-20 arguably excellent/memorable episodes:
1. Lie to Me
2. Innocence
3. Passion
4. Becoming I
5. Becoming II
6. Lover's Walk
7. Dopplegangland
8. Hush
9. This Year's Girl
10. Who Are You
11. Restless
12. Fool for Love
13. Crush
14. The Body
15. Once More with Feeling
16. Dead Things
17. Normal Again
18. Beneath Me
19. Conversations with Dead People
20. Lies My Parents Told Me
I don't know. Glad I don't have to do that for a living.
Anyhow...back when I was watching Buffy in the late 1990s, during my gig at the evil library reference company...I had the following conversation with a work colleague/friend on the way home from work. We often rode the subway home together, having long chats about a variety of topics. Not Buffy - she considered it beneath her. Cultural dissonance exists in all climes.
Me: I can't seem to read anything. I get a few pages in and my attention wanders. What is wrong with me?
CW: Your working hard, brain is filled with info, can't fit more in. Plus stress. What you need is...a HAPPY BOOK.
Me: Didn't realize book's had emotions.
CW: No, I mean something light, stress reducing, fluffy, you don't have to remember, keep track of characters, can just enjoy. A light breezy read. (PAUSE) Have you ever read PD Wodehouse?
Now coming up with a list of light breezy books that aren't violent and are well-written isn't easy. Also by different authors. So far...I've come up with the following, but I've read them all:
* PD Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster
* William Goldman's Princess Bride (although not sure it qualifies)
* Harry Potter (again not sure it qualifies and a children's book)
Not sure of anything else. Jane Austen is almost too deep as is Louisa May Alcott. Terry Prachett is too punny and requires attention to foot-notes. Mark Twain requires too much concentration - he's a precise writer.
And I'm not talking about "airplane books" - ie the thriller or mystery of the week series or Gerogette Heyer. I mean fluffy books, that are witty. Are there any? I know there are for kids and young adults, which may explain the sudden influx of adult readers of young adult novels. But I burned out that genre a while ago.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2013-07-21 09:40 pm (UTC)I'm glad to see The Wish making an appearance on Syfy's list; Dopplegangland tends to steal the fandom spotlight. I probably shouldn't be surprised at the number of S3 eps. (Faith, Hope and Trick, really?) I find the season overrated.
The omission of This Year's Girl / Who are You is just...wrong. Those eps are a turning point for Faith, Buffy, Spike (it foreshadows the entire Buffy/Spike trajectory in S6 down to the dark sexuality and violation), and more subtly, Tara.
I'm assuming neither you nor the folks at Syfy are fans of Prophecy Girl? I consider that an essential episode; but I'd also name Nightmares, because Buffy's fear of losing her humanity, of being isolated physically and emotionally, is spelled out right there.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-21 11:02 pm (UTC)Also, The Gift has to be on the third list, probably instead of Crush.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-21 11:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 12:43 am (UTC)I noticed the omission of the Gift, but I completely missed the presence of Crush, and - I'm sorry but not sorry. I couldn't stand watching it the first time (Buffy chained up and tortured? So not my thing. What was the runner up, Reptile Boy?) Fool for Love definitely belongs there but Crush isn't significant enough.
Intervention would be another good choice, actually - Buffy's vision quest, the Buffybot; and Spike being tortured for Dawn is one of the biggest moments in his arc. If you haven't seen that then nothing about his interaction with Buffy afterwards is going to make sense.
Interesting that they put Normal Again - it's one of my personal favorites but that probably isn't a fandom consensus, from what I've seen.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 12:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 01:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 01:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 01:35 am (UTC)If I was forced to do a favorite episodes list, NA would definitely be on it. Once you introduce a little sister and altered memories, then anything's up for grabs; I love the meta commentary on the nature of storytelling. (Also, that it's Joyce who wakes Buffy out of her stupor, even if she's a hallucination. I love exploring that relationship.)
I don't know if you've read
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:Oh wait, one more thing....
Date: 2013-07-22 01:11 am (UTC)Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
Date: 2013-07-22 01:14 am (UTC)Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
Date: 2013-07-22 01:30 am (UTC)Also, I feel silly going on about the AV Club like I did but - it was really interesting to read comments there, then explore other parts of online fandom and see the divergences of opinion that could fit inside the Grand Canyon, with room left over for the Great Wall of China.
Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:Re: Oh wait, one more thing....
From:no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 01:56 am (UTC)But grueling from an emotional perspective. Shippers tended to hate it.
Non-shippers tended to love it. There were exceptions of course on both sides, I'm speaking generally.
ETA: can't of course comment on current fandom. I'm not really a part of it. And I have no knowledge/interest in AV Club. But the fan boards when it aired in 2002? Were largely positive.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 02:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 06:28 pm (UTC)My first thought watching it was that the writers were probably saying to themselves "How can we really blow the audience's mind?" Mission accomplished.
I still enjoy the emotional aspect of it - the connection to Joyce, the way it ties into the beginning of the series, (I never thought Buffy was as "carefree" to start with as a lot of fans seem to?) but Buffy is my BDH anyway; and the depression arc was the part of the series that speaks the most personally to me.
I'm also interested in what that ep implies about the show's overall approach to mental illness - that it's something one just needs to "get over". That may not have been their intention (not that I ever worried about that.)
But grueling from an emotional perspective
I live breath and eat this stuff up with a spoon. (which is probably not a good thing, granted.)
Shippers tended to hate it. Non-shippers tended to love it.
See, I'm not sure where I fall. I "ship" Buffy&Spike in S7, and I'm fascinated by their relationship up until then in the ways they mirror one another, but I'm a Buffy-first fan, always. (I had no idea a year ago that "Spuffy" means 99% of the time "Spike fan" and Buffy just happens to be there.) I almost feel like that's a minority but I could be wrong. everything thinks they're in the minority in fandom.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 10:16 pm (UTC)Oh, I liked the character well enough. And in the latter seasons (5,6 and 7) identified. But I was more of a Spike and Willow shipper than a Buffy shipper. Wrote about them more in meta, they were more interesting to me, had more layers, more complexity. More to analyze. Which may be why a lot of fanfic writers struggled to write Buffy. The hero is often hard to write - because writers veer away from giving them too many blemishes.
That said - her arc in S5-S6 Grave, I found interesting, mainly because I was going through something similar at the time. (ie. physical and emotional depression). And felt the writers captured it well. That feeling of wanting to just fall into an abyss or go to sleep and never wake up. But other than that? The character didn't interest me.
My three favorite characters were probably Spike, Willow and Giles.
Those were the ones I found the most interesting.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 12:53 am (UTC)I love the episode for the character moments. And it has some great ones.
It delves into Spike's psychology.
My problem with the Gift is ...well it is sort of silly. The whole plan is dumb. And there's far too much time with Dawn/Glory and Ben. The season enders outside of maybe Becoming, always felt campy and over the top to me.
There's subtle touches to Crush and the blend of music and character...is interesting. Plus, I admittedly adore Drusilla. But I also haven't watched the episode in a long time. I may feel differently now. Memory tends to make things better than they actually are.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 01:05 am (UTC)Although it's always gratifying on the rare occasions something's as good or better than I remembered. (At some point I'll watch S3 again, and who knows how I'll feel this time.
The season enders outside of maybe Becoming, always felt campy and over the top to me.
How do you rate Restless?
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 02:06 am (UTC)The episode explores each character, the mythology of the series, it's themes and comments on pop culture and art all at the same time.
Best 8 episodes?
1. Restless
2. Once More with Feeling
3. The Body
4. HUSH
5. Fool for Love
6. Normal Again
7. Conversations with Dead People
8. Who are You
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 06:32 pm (UTC)I can't argue with anything on this list, although Restless is one I respect intellectually and enjoy for the way it wraps up S4 and connects it to S5 re: the continuing emphasis on the theme of Buffy's psychology.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-21 11:33 pm (UTC)Although it is better than Harvest. But you sort of need it to understand the series.
It's hard to do lists with serials. They didn't do a bad job considering this was meant to be a teaser marathon. I'm guessing they just got sub rights to Buffy. And are advertising with the marathon. Now all they need is Angel and Dollhouse, and they can do a Whedon weekend.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 12:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 12:35 am (UTC)Faith was such a fascinating character and I would have liked to have seen more of her, and more Buffy & Faith interaction. As it is, Faith is missing from quite a few episodes, then Bad Girls happens rather late in the season (for some reason my memory placed it earlier than it is) so then there's this "rush" or intensification near the end of things.
I do enjoy the Mayor, though; and his relationship with Faith is almost as fascinating to me as that of Buffy and Giles.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 12:47 am (UTC)The B/A relationship had sort of run its course by the end of S3. There was nothing else they could do. The angst was so over-the-top that it is actually funny in places and eye-rolling in others. I tried to re-watch Lover's Walk and Graduation Day today, and couldn't stop giggling at the angst. I loved it at the time, but now...years later, after watching so many other similar things...including the Twilight movie, it seems rather silly.
So yes, it does drag the season down a bit. Spike was actually more interesting in S7 - because for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how the writers could get the couple past Seeing Red and Spike's guilt.
Angel after S2...got back with Buffy much faster...and the conflict was basically, we can't be together because of the curse, which got old after a bit. With Spike, it was far more complicated. Also, unlike B/A, we weren't even sure that there was a B/S or if Buffy loved him or could love him. Much more friction and conflict.
I honestly think the writers screwed up how they brought both Spike and Angel back in S3 and S7. They should have drawn it out a bit more,
and made it more ambiguous for the audience. We knew for both characters by literally the second or fifth episode that they were good guys. There was no suspense. The writers made a huge mistake telling the audience what happened to Spike in S6. Or for that matter that Angel was good in Amends. They should have made it less clear...like in Enemies. If the whole season had him acting like he did in Enemies, except with Buffy not in the loop, it might have been more interesting.
Whedon didn't know what to do with Angel and Spike...which showed. He reluctantly added them. And lacked the imagination to really play with them.
Sorry that was a bit of a ramble...worrying about work tomorrow, so distracting myself. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 01:26 am (UTC)I'm sure S2 would have felt the same if Angel hadn't lost his soul. That entire storyline made that season, and it's not even the entire season but that's what we remember. So without that - S3 Bangel just bored me to know end. (Why should the audience care if even the actors are bored of it?)
for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how the writers could get the couple past Seeing Red and Spike's guilt.
I remember watching the first time last year (I saw the entire series in three weeks) and when Lessons started I was already looking at Robin as a potential partner for Buffy. (But my default was always that I just wanted her to be happy. Clearly, I did NOT know Joss yet.) I knew Spike would come back but it didn't occur to me for some time that Spike would be her "man" again that season. As you say, how were they going to come back from SR?
They should have made it less clear...like in Enemies.
I think you're right - that could have made both seasons more interesting. *ponders* I did like Enemies quite a bit last year, but it bothered me to no end that Buffy was bothered by the "Angelus" act, not because it brought back bad memories of the year before - but because watching him with Faith made her jealous? SRLSLY? That struck me as horribly dumb.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-22 02:28 am (UTC)Well, I knew it was a soap opera and you can come back from that in soap operas. (ie. General Hospital, One Life to Live, Days, the list is endless. Also various comic books).
See, in soap operas you don't want happy characters. The conflict comes from unhappy characters struggling to be happy. Once they are "happy" - the writers have to figure out how to make them miserable or the series is over.
Buffy attracted a lot of non-soap fans, who are used to shows like Castle or Bones or NCIS ...where the characters are generally speaking happy. They solve the case of the week. Or they have a big adventure. But their personal lives are fine and dandy. Straight dramas like ER,
Parenthood, Grey's Anatomy, and Brothers and Sisters, also tend to have "happy characters". But gothic horror soap operas? NO! Not possible. It's a serial, the conflict is often from the interrelationships of the characters. Also it's a romantic serial - you need romantic conflict.
Robin Wood would have been Riley take 2, and Riley was boring because there wasn't enough conflict. Did you like First Date? Imagine a whole season of that? That's Robin/Buffy romance in a nutshell.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: