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shadowkatWoke up to dense fog this morning which still appears to be dense. The temperature is supposed to rise to a rather balmy 56 degrees. I have no idea what that is in Celsius.
Highly aggravated. Feel profoundly stuck and want snipe at things. Hopefully it'll pass.
On a side note, one of my uncles has announced on Facebook that his...supernatural Christmas thriller about the birth of Jesus has stayed in Amazon's Top Ten list in...Denmark for three weeks.
Yes, I said Denmark. This was not a misprint. He's doing the happy snoopy dance or as he put it Snoopy is dancing because it's on the Amazon top ten list in Denmark. I restrained myself from telling him, "it's "the "happy snoopy dance" NOT Snoopy is dancing". Seriously, Denmark? I haven't read the book - the story isn't my cup of tea or coco as the case may be. (In that I don't tend to like preachy Christian/religious supernatural thrillers...I have enough problems with Jim Butcher.)
Talking about stories that don't work for you or rather plot-threads or tropes that take you out of the story or make you stop reading...
There's about four or five in fanfiction and specifically genre fiction that will make me stop watching or give up on the story entirely. These are narrative devices or tropes or whatever you want to call them because really drawing a blank here - that disrupt the story for me personally and make me stop reading.
1. The Sire Bond. This is basically the hold that the vampire who sires another has over them. In short, I sired you, now you are my sex slave because I turned you into a vampire. I'm your maker and now you are my slave.
Forgetting the gross incestuous implications for a minute...I find it silly And it has pulled me out of various stories...regardless of the writer. I don't think anyone has pulled it off. I stopped reading Dracula by Bram Stoker in part because of it and he created the stupid trope. I rather liked what Joss Whedon did with it - which was make fun of it and shrug it off.
Fanfic writers and romance writers invariably consider it romantic or cool and overdo it. The gist of it is...I didn't do these things, my maker made me do them...so I get a "get out of jail" free card. In short I was under his or her control.
2. Loss of Character Agency - the Devil Made Me Do it storyline. Or I was possessed by an evil spirit. Or under mind control.
Unfortunately this bit has been over-done. I've only liked in some situations - examples when it works? Spike in S7 Buffy, with the trigger. I like the trigger and the psychology behind it.
He didn't really lose his agency, he gave it up - so he wouldn't have to feel pain. So he does take responsibility for it. Or in S4 Buffy - with Riley...who fights the control of Professor Walsh. Or Clockwork Orange...also done with Spike in Buffy - the attempt to change or modify behavior. That is interesting and builds plot and character, because the character is active, not passive.
What is not interesting is what they did with Angel. Oh, I lost my soul - it's all Angelus fault.
Or oh I was possessed by the evil Twilight...or in short someone else's puppet against my will.
They do this a lot in comic books. It's always annoying. And the character doesn't change or grow.
We just go back to the way things were. There's no real plot progression. And it happens again and again, and again and again her or she is excused.
3. Soul Mates...it's EPIC!
Oh please.
Two characters meet, they exchange five words, and its instant love. And of course continues forever. They get involved with other people, but are always drawn back to each other...because we are each others one true love. The romeo/juliet syndrom...forgetting of course that they died.
It's all fine and well for about five months...then after a bit one gets tired of the speechifying.
And groping. There's no plot progression, no character advancement. It's just OMG, I love you so much I will die! Bored now. The characters are passive - love controls them. They have no choice in the matter. And the story doesn't move it hovers.
4. The Oppressive Love Triangle, which is only there to create conflict for the One True Love.
Often a third character is introduced, who is hot and sexy, and used to pry the OTL or OTP apart.
They don't of course, because we must have the epic love. But it creates conflict. The pitfall of this approach is sometimes the third character is more interesting, less passive, more aggressive and more proactive to the plot. The third character may change and evolve due to the unrequited love, while the central two remain stagnant.
It's okay for about one or two seasons or five minutes, but if the writer doesn't move on and keeps the love triangle past a certain point - we start to wonder about the characters sanity.
5. The Grudge Story Line - or have a character you don't like do horrible things or bash them to prove a point.
Mainly in fanfic, but also a stand-by in long running soap operas and comic books, unfortunately. Often writers will feel the need to make a character they don't like and don't want the readers to like - do something that will piss the reader's or audience off. ie. "This is supposed to be a villain - you are supposed to love to hate them, you nitwits! And be rooting for Character A over here!" Often the action is either out of character or would have been in character a year or so ago, but isn't now - because the writers evolved the character over the course of the last three years. But now, they want to set them back a bit...for whatever reason. The audience thinks wait, I thought XYZ was on the path to redeemption. Why did they do that? That makes no sense. Damn. This alienates your reader and audience, don't do it.
In fanfic it's worse - often they'll take a character that other's love and make them horrible in the fic. The Grudge Fic.
6. Saint to Sinner and back again. Rinse and Repeat as needed.
They also do the opposite...in which they take a character they've turned darker, then suddenly out of the blue redeem them. The character is saintly again. There's no build-up. Or anything.
Or they'll build up to it - but just over two episodes...after spending five episodes making them dark. The audience has whip lash. There's really no in-between, they are either evil or saintly and we bounce back and forth.
Okay, came up with 6. Feel free to share yours..if you feel so inclined.
Highly aggravated. Feel profoundly stuck and want snipe at things. Hopefully it'll pass.
On a side note, one of my uncles has announced on Facebook that his...supernatural Christmas thriller about the birth of Jesus has stayed in Amazon's Top Ten list in...Denmark for three weeks.
Yes, I said Denmark. This was not a misprint. He's doing the happy snoopy dance or as he put it Snoopy is dancing because it's on the Amazon top ten list in Denmark. I restrained myself from telling him, "it's "the "happy snoopy dance" NOT Snoopy is dancing". Seriously, Denmark? I haven't read the book - the story isn't my cup of tea or coco as the case may be. (In that I don't tend to like preachy Christian/religious supernatural thrillers...I have enough problems with Jim Butcher.)
Talking about stories that don't work for you or rather plot-threads or tropes that take you out of the story or make you stop reading...
There's about four or five in fanfiction and specifically genre fiction that will make me stop watching or give up on the story entirely. These are narrative devices or tropes or whatever you want to call them because really drawing a blank here - that disrupt the story for me personally and make me stop reading.
1. The Sire Bond. This is basically the hold that the vampire who sires another has over them. In short, I sired you, now you are my sex slave because I turned you into a vampire. I'm your maker and now you are my slave.
Forgetting the gross incestuous implications for a minute...I find it silly And it has pulled me out of various stories...regardless of the writer. I don't think anyone has pulled it off. I stopped reading Dracula by Bram Stoker in part because of it and he created the stupid trope. I rather liked what Joss Whedon did with it - which was make fun of it and shrug it off.
Fanfic writers and romance writers invariably consider it romantic or cool and overdo it. The gist of it is...I didn't do these things, my maker made me do them...so I get a "get out of jail" free card. In short I was under his or her control.
2. Loss of Character Agency - the Devil Made Me Do it storyline. Or I was possessed by an evil spirit. Or under mind control.
Unfortunately this bit has been over-done. I've only liked in some situations - examples when it works? Spike in S7 Buffy, with the trigger. I like the trigger and the psychology behind it.
He didn't really lose his agency, he gave it up - so he wouldn't have to feel pain. So he does take responsibility for it. Or in S4 Buffy - with Riley...who fights the control of Professor Walsh. Or Clockwork Orange...also done with Spike in Buffy - the attempt to change or modify behavior. That is interesting and builds plot and character, because the character is active, not passive.
What is not interesting is what they did with Angel. Oh, I lost my soul - it's all Angelus fault.
Or oh I was possessed by the evil Twilight...or in short someone else's puppet against my will.
They do this a lot in comic books. It's always annoying. And the character doesn't change or grow.
We just go back to the way things were. There's no real plot progression. And it happens again and again, and again and again her or she is excused.
3. Soul Mates...it's EPIC!
Oh please.
Two characters meet, they exchange five words, and its instant love. And of course continues forever. They get involved with other people, but are always drawn back to each other...because we are each others one true love. The romeo/juliet syndrom...forgetting of course that they died.
It's all fine and well for about five months...then after a bit one gets tired of the speechifying.
And groping. There's no plot progression, no character advancement. It's just OMG, I love you so much I will die! Bored now. The characters are passive - love controls them. They have no choice in the matter. And the story doesn't move it hovers.
4. The Oppressive Love Triangle, which is only there to create conflict for the One True Love.
Often a third character is introduced, who is hot and sexy, and used to pry the OTL or OTP apart.
They don't of course, because we must have the epic love. But it creates conflict. The pitfall of this approach is sometimes the third character is more interesting, less passive, more aggressive and more proactive to the plot. The third character may change and evolve due to the unrequited love, while the central two remain stagnant.
It's okay for about one or two seasons or five minutes, but if the writer doesn't move on and keeps the love triangle past a certain point - we start to wonder about the characters sanity.
5. The Grudge Story Line - or have a character you don't like do horrible things or bash them to prove a point.
Mainly in fanfic, but also a stand-by in long running soap operas and comic books, unfortunately. Often writers will feel the need to make a character they don't like and don't want the readers to like - do something that will piss the reader's or audience off. ie. "This is supposed to be a villain - you are supposed to love to hate them, you nitwits! And be rooting for Character A over here!" Often the action is either out of character or would have been in character a year or so ago, but isn't now - because the writers evolved the character over the course of the last three years. But now, they want to set them back a bit...for whatever reason. The audience thinks wait, I thought XYZ was on the path to redeemption. Why did they do that? That makes no sense. Damn. This alienates your reader and audience, don't do it.
In fanfic it's worse - often they'll take a character that other's love and make them horrible in the fic. The Grudge Fic.
6. Saint to Sinner and back again. Rinse and Repeat as needed.
They also do the opposite...in which they take a character they've turned darker, then suddenly out of the blue redeem them. The character is saintly again. There's no build-up. Or anything.
Or they'll build up to it - but just over two episodes...after spending five episodes making them dark. The audience has whip lash. There's really no in-between, they are either evil or saintly and we bounce back and forth.
Okay, came up with 6. Feel free to share yours..if you feel so inclined.
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no subject
Date: 2012-12-02 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-02 11:28 pm (UTC)Yes and no.
No one to date has sold me on the number #1. And there's some very good writers who have tried. LOL!
Shakespeare however, and Sondheim/Bernstein did a decent job with # 3 (One True Love - I think that is number 3?) Romeo and Juliet, Joss Whedon, Stephanie Meyer and Julie Plec not so much.
Trying to think of a writer, outside of maybe Shakespeare who invented some of these, who has sold me on any of the above (outside of 1, which no one has sold me on)? Can't think of anyone...maybe, no, Whedon lost me most of the time when he tried it.
That said - as a riff on your #2, something that really bugs me is loss of reader agency, when we're told and expected to feel a certain way or draw conclusions about characters' actions that absolutely have to be the way the author intended or the story's universe won't work.
You mean audience/reader suspension of disbelief? Or something else...
more like...complicit agreement with or ...just going along with the writer's moral agenda whatever that may be?
24 lost me on both. 1) I was supposed to believe that Jack could do all these things within a 24 hour time period, when I knew for a fact that it takes at least four hours to drive into LA each morning.
2) I was supposed to think that Jack would obtain great and useful information through torture. No, that's not possible. When someone is tortured they will tell you basically anything to get you to stop, whether or not its true...is anyone's guess. No...this was "revenge fantasy stuff" - let's torture the evil terrorists. (so yes, I think I agree..)
Vamp Diaries is losing me for similar reasons...as did for that matter Angel, Lost, Dollhouse, BSG, and Buffy.
It does take you right out of the story, doesn't it? You're far too busy arguing with the writer about the plot dynamics, universe, world-building choices, and/or character motivations which are supposed to further his/her moral message or general theme to enjoy the tale.
Although to be fair to Angel...I'm still not entirely sure what the writers intended there. Nor am I certain the writers know for that matter. There appears to have been a difference of opinion in the writing room. One group thought Angel could be redeemed or was on a journey of redemption, another thought he didn't need to be redeemed, since Angel and Angelus were two separate entities, and a third thought he couldn't be redeemed and was just evil. The disagreement made for some very confusing story-threads. Interesting, but confusing.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-03 02:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-03 03:22 am (UTC)I'd challenge people to come up with five writers who have done it well. Or just one. Of course the problem with writing is that's subjective.
What's great writing to one person, is horrific to another...or so I've learned.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-03 03:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-04 12:10 am (UTC)Agreed - the combination of two of them...ugh. But the problem is in part the overuse, I think. I liked each of these tropes initially or when I first encountered them, but they've been done to death now. So I see all the problems.
I want to blame Stephanie Meyer - who somehow managed to combine all six of the above tropes, along with the rape trope, in her Twilight novels...yet still sold millions. The mind boggles. So as a result, we have all these professional copy-cats.
But, to be fair, I think they may have been hitting the saturation point before Meyer, Meyer just sort of threw them over the cliff...well Meyer, and her followers or copy-cats.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-04 06:01 am (UTC)As to the question - i think it was cryonics and/or healing gel.
Yeah, Meyer is so depressing because she knocked Harry Potter off, and is training kids to be passive and needy.
I will agree that there are times when a character is so OOC they are acting like schoolgirls. Even then - look at Tea and Biscuits - a classic. Sometimes I have to put it down and other times I love it. I think the tipping point for me is bad spelling and grammar. That's where I give two paragraphs and seldom more. It's too bad because sometimes they have good ideas. Other times they have everyone above and more.