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shadowkatThis poll is at the request of ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
shapinglight and in direct response to a discussion shapinglight, beergoodfoamy and I were having regarding comic readership. We were wondering how many of the television fans actually read or were reading the comics, how many were continuing to read them or had given up, why they'd given up, why they were still reading, and how many were fans of the comics but not of the tv series. Not sure this poll will answer any of those questions. But hey, it's worth a shot.
So please pass the link along...the more responses the better. Especially if you are fan and have never read the comics, or are a fan and started to read them and gave up? Please respond to the poll - you only have to respond to a couple of questions...since the latter ones don't apply to non-readers of the comics.
Polls are tough to create - because you can't edit the things. You always forget something. So if I did, just explain your take in the comments, keeping in mind that I can't edit the poll! And you are dependent on people responding to them. But they are also a lot more fun and more informative than memes...in my opinon. Anyhow...thanks.
[Poll #1490047]
shapinglight and in direct response to a discussion shapinglight, beergoodfoamy and I were having regarding comic readership. We were wondering how many of the television fans actually read or were reading the comics, how many were continuing to read them or had given up, why they'd given up, why they were still reading, and how many were fans of the comics but not of the tv series. Not sure this poll will answer any of those questions. But hey, it's worth a shot.So please pass the link along...the more responses the better. Especially if you are fan and have never read the comics, or are a fan and started to read them and gave up? Please respond to the poll - you only have to respond to a couple of questions...since the latter ones don't apply to non-readers of the comics.
Polls are tough to create - because you can't edit the things. You always forget something. So if I did, just explain your take in the comments, keeping in mind that I can't edit the poll! And you are dependent on people responding to them. But they are also a lot more fun and more informative than memes...in my opinon. Anyhow...thanks.
[Poll #1490047]
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Date: 2009-11-25 04:33 am (UTC)Buffy and Fray! I love that arc and I loved Fray's appearance. I think they had a great dynamic. They go from enemies to buddy cops to enemies again and that final battle was epic. I loved Buffy using the watertower (always using the environment around her) and the battle couldn't have had a more exciting backdrop than Haddyn with all the flying cars and such. It made the battle feel literally airborne.
I could have done without Warren's appearance, but Riley has been fairly disappointing so far also. We'll see how it pans out when Whedon returns for the next 2 issues and how Meltzer does with the penultimate arc.
Character that you most want to see appear in Buffy comics that has yet to appear?
The First Slayer is listed as an option here, but technically she did appear in The Chain. And though it's really only as a visual avatar, it's not like she ever had a stronger presence on the show either - she was a dream avatar and a vision quest avatar in the other instances. You can equate Giles voiceover to Tara being the First Slayer's voice in Restless - in spirit, at least.
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Date: 2009-11-25 04:55 am (UTC)Although I am tickled by the suggestion that Hank Summers might be Twilight, I am sort of hoping for Ethan Rayne because I really don't want him to be dead. *sob*
I don't know if I can say which comic series I like best, as I have serious doubts about all of them, but I did like the IDW Drusilla 2fer.
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Date: 2009-11-25 05:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-25 07:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-25 05:04 am (UTC)They are canon in a hand-wavy sort of way to me.
I didn't even know about DawnXander. Huh.
I hope Twilight is an appearance by one of those book's characters. Ultimate smackdown crossover. Buffy could finally stake Edward. ;-)
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Date: 2009-11-25 05:20 am (UTC)It's like Whedon's jumping from one indulgent storyline to another without much connection between them. Now we're in the future fighting Willow and meeting Fray, now we're in the past visiting the first season, now Buffy's not lifting a finger to help her sister, now we're all in Tibet with goddesses on our side, now we've got an inexplicable love triangle between Dawn, Xander, and Buffy, and somehow we're supposed to care about a secret identity stretched out over two years? It's like there's a story in there that wants to break out, but so far we've only got broad plotline sketches and almost no character development (that feels natural, anyway)
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Date: 2009-11-25 12:31 pm (UTC)Word.
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Date: 2009-11-25 05:22 am (UTC)I am actually open to the Xander/Dawn pairing but I couldn't say 'I loved it' so I went ahead and said ambivalent... I'm really open to anything Joss wants to do (I weird like that), but I do wish he had let Renee live a little longer... I really liked her character and I'd have liked to get to know her better....
I wish Joss hadn't brought in Ethan Rayne just to kill him off so quickly, that seemed like a wasted opportunity to me.... And I hope that Twilight is someone we haven't thought of (how about Riley's wife? THAT would be hilarious!).
And actually I'm not sure I would really say I love Brian Lynch's Spike MORE than Joss' BtVS S8, I just like them differently.... I do think that Brian is a very good comic book story teller, his work is tight, funny and right on the nose. Joss' comic writing has a tendency to wander around and it all starts to feel kind of sloppy (and his TV productions never feel sloppy to me). But I'm still willing to follow Joss in his wanderings; I thought he paid it all (or at least almost all) off w/his Astonishing X-men, and I trust him to bring BtVS S8 home too (we shall see).
And I do subscribe to the position that if Joss says it is canon then it is. I'm not going to bother arguing the point with anyone anywhere ever, but it is how I feel.
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Date: 2009-11-25 06:48 am (UTC)None or all of the above seem just as likely at this point, so don't really care.
Do you consider the comics canon?
Canon, schmanon.
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Date: 2009-11-25 07:41 am (UTC)On one hand I'd love to learn what place Spike takes in her mind these days, the big "does she know"- question solved. On the other hand the comics are so bad at times, that I don't know if I want to watch them assasinate the character.
Thats the impression I had about Rayne. He was awesome and he just got some pointless comic death, with Giles not even having an opinion on it. Better he'd never set a foot that book.
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Date: 2009-11-26 01:26 pm (UTC)Yep. I chose Clem - I figure he's already silly and funny, and thus would come across more in-character than most everyone. Like Andrew. :)
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Date: 2009-11-25 08:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-25 10:46 am (UTC)Pairing: I voted for Xander/Renee, but they did nothing for me in the actual comics; I fell for them in the fic A Girl with A Purpose.
I think Twilight is Caleb.
I'd love to see Buffy and Spike's comics written by Joss. Really.
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Date: 2009-11-25 12:55 pm (UTC)Awww. Thanks, hon! *hugs*
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Date: 2009-11-25 07:14 pm (UTC)Do you mean Buffy and Spike together? Or just that Spike's title was written by Joss? *is curious about why you feel this way* :)
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Date: 2009-11-25 07:38 pm (UTC)I'm still baffled by the choice of characters Joss included in s8. Amy and Warren became pointless after the first arc. Riley's presence it strictly token - he isn't involved in the plot, he doesn't change anything.
And Spike appears only in Buffy's horny dreams. I think Joss could use him more creatively.
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Date: 2009-11-25 07:49 pm (UTC)And I totally agree about Warren and Riley (Amy has always just been kinda *there* for me, not doing all that much that I cared about, so she doesn't grate) - but Riley especially hasn't had much interesting stuff happen. I'm now hoping for a double-cross to make his appearance worthwhile.
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Date: 2009-11-25 08:00 pm (UTC)Actually, when I first saw Riley I entertained the idea that the lack of scar on his face was intentional and it's a Rileybot. But it looks like Jeanty had simply forgot about the scar.
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Date: 2009-11-25 11:18 am (UTC)Must admit I would have liked a 'don't really care' option for who Twilight is. I suppose there's a point to that character, but, to be honest, he's less interesting to me than ever Adam was.
Still under Willow & Tara's spell,
Ray.
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Date: 2009-11-25 12:30 pm (UTC)I said that 'Retreat' was the straw that broke the camel's back but really I have hated them since 'No Future For You' - the portrayal of the UK therein was not just ludicrous but was deeply offensive. I kept reading them only for purposes of parody, hating them more and more as I went, but 'Retreat' was idiotic beyond any possibility of parody and I just gave up altogether.
The comics have made me lose all respect for Joss, and even for Jane Espenson, and I think they're killing the fandom.
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Date: 2009-11-25 12:42 pm (UTC)I am a fan of the series but I haven't actually read any of the comics. Instead, in the beginning, I avidly read folks recaps of the comics to see if anything 'important' or 'exciting' happened. Now, not so much - basically I just skim recaps.
Also, in the beginning, I was prepared to accept the comics as canon coz Joss said so but now, again, not so much. From fairly early on the story went places that didn't logically seem to be a continuation of the TRUE BTVS story and characters that I fell in love with so I no longer consider them canon and truly don't care anymore about what happens.... unless, of course, spike & buffy get together in twulove 4ever - lololol *iz shallow & a hopeless spuffy* *GRINS*
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Date: 2009-11-25 12:52 pm (UTC)Great poll. :)
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Date: 2009-11-25 12:54 pm (UTC)Buffy and Xander! Really love how close they became, their friendship is one of the highlights of the TV show and I'm happy to see how far it developed.
The canon issue for me will always be: creater says they're canon, then they are. His show, his characters, his verse, he has the right to continue it the way he wants regardless of if we like it or not.
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Date: 2009-11-25 01:34 pm (UTC)I think all the Buffy comics count as canon: as far as Angel I pick all Brian Lynch, and the current Only Human miniseries because of its satisfying Gunn backstory.
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Date: 2009-11-25 01:40 pm (UTC)However, (my pet peeve) -- the phrase "considering something canon" is meaningless. The comics are either canon or they aren't... that's something Joss gets to decide, not us. And they are canon (the Buffy comics and the After the Fall ones), because Joss wrote and/or executive-produced them. Just like the TV show.
People can decide to ignore whatever portions of the story they want, but that has nothing to do with whether it's canon or not.
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Date: 2009-11-25 01:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-25 07:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-25 09:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-25 03:24 pm (UTC)I ticked that I wasn't still reading the comic, but I will be. I won't buy myself a copy any more (the Retreat arc was the last straw for me), but since I have to buy them for other people I will read them before I get them in the post. I just won't bother reviewing any more unless there's a massive improvement, which I don't see happening now.
Though I ticked that Spike was the character I most wanted to appear, I'm actually not that keen on him doing so. For a start, I know he'll look about 12 years old if Jeanty draws him. However, since Angel got to appear in the Buffy's dream issue, it seems only fair to me that Spike also appear as something other than a cheesy sex fantasy. I would like to think he meant a bit more to Buffy than that.
The reappearance of Warren is by far the worst return of an old character. It's lame, ruins the end of season 6, and what's more Joss's explanation that he forgot Warren was dead was lame too. Also, I hate that he reintroduced Ethan Rayne only to kill him off like that. What a waste.
Best romantic pairing for me was one you didn't include. I really liked Xander/Dracula. It was fun. I quite liked Buffy/Satsu too. Wouldn't have minded if that had gone somewhere. On the other hand, the Buffy/Dawn/Xander 'romantic triangle' bores me rigid.
I think the identity of Twilight is about the last spark of curiosity I have about where this story is going, and re: the canon question, I accept that Joss says this series is canon. All I can say to that is, couldn't he have thought of something better?
I don't consider the AtS comics canon at all, not even the one with Joss's name on them. Season 8 notwithstanding, I like to think that if Joss had personally continued AtS, he would have given the character of Angel more depth and not whitewashed him the way Lynch has.
I did enjoy Lynch's 2 Spike series a lot. In fact, they're the series I've enjoyed the most out of all these comics. However, I've enjoyed them more for knowing they aren't canon.
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Date: 2009-11-26 12:48 pm (UTC)Yes, I have some issues with IDW's Angel comics, but hell, I shudder to think of what Darkhorse would have done with both Spike and Angels characters.
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Date: 2009-11-25 04:25 pm (UTC)Emotionally nothing over at IDW counts as canon for me. As Shapinglight says, Lynch's Angel was too flat to move me as the 'real' Angel. Oddly, though I like the Buffy comics more, I don't emotionally think of them as canon either. The Buffy I saw at the end of Chosen wasn't on any obvious trajectory to robbing banks to finance a high-tech army holed up in a castle, and I haven't been given any kind of story to explain how she got there. Among other things we skipped over one of the central questions of her story which is what she would do if she had a choice. (Seeing she's made a choice is not the same as watching her make it). So this just feels like another fanfic -- one of many possible outcomes post-Chosen. Whether it's an interesting option depends a great deal on how much repair can happen in the last quarter of the series.
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Date: 2009-11-25 07:39 pm (UTC)Exactly.
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Date: 2009-11-26 12:04 am (UTC)Word.
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Date: 2009-11-25 07:38 pm (UTC)Do you consider the comics canon?
I chose "Buffy and the Angel comics with Whedon's name on the cover." I do consider them canon, but only because they bear Whedon's name.
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Date: 2009-11-25 09:02 pm (UTC)And count me in as another that doesn't care who Twilight is and doesn't care about any of the pairings in the comics. I just can't bring myself to care or be engaged with any of these representations of the characters. So many unanswered questions and tangent storylines and just things that seem so out of character and beyond even my suspense of disbelief for a make-believe world.
I didn't answer one question because I'm not sure if the option was in there. I actually *liked* the comics that came out when the show was on the air. I think the Dark Horse Angel comics and the early IDW Angel comics were fantastic.
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Date: 2009-11-25 09:47 pm (UTC)I like the Buffy comics, I guess that’s obvious. Can’t say the same about any of the IDW productions, I only made it as far as AtF #3 and that’s two more issues than any of Lynch’s Spike books. Don’t like the art, don’t like the writing but I never was much of an AtS fan and Spike got boring when he left Buffy so they were always going to be a hard sell.
I love Jeanty’s art, it really suits BtVS, the way it was cut and the way it was shot. It captures the wit, gives good close up, excellent posture and Jeanty has a real knack for composition that tells a story. I love the story. It’s taking the characters, especially Buffy and she’s my favourite, to new and unexpected places. Places that in retrospect seem quite logical but I never know quite where it’s headed. I may hate it or I may love it but I want to see how it ends.
I found several of the poll questions hard to answer. I don’t care about canon. I don’t care who Twilight is, although I do care why he is. I don’t have any strong opinions about who’s appeared so far, they’ve all justified their presence (Warren and Amy are scary comedy gold) or have the potential to (Riley – they’re going to need some inside information on Twilight soon for the story to progress). There’s no one who hasn’t appeared that I need to see, I need story more than characters. It’s a story about a girl and she’s there, really there, so it’s all good.
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Date: 2009-11-25 10:31 pm (UTC)I really enjoyed Angel: After the Fall mainly because of the Angel-Spike-Connor family dynamics. I'm not nearly as emotionally invested in any of the relationships in the Buffy comics. Willow, Xander and Giles have never been my favorite characters, so, meh. Even Dawn leaves me kind of blah in this 'verse, with her huge horsiness.
Favorite couple in BtVS Season 8: Angel/Spike, of course!
As for canon, I kind of regard the ones with Joss's name on them as canon because he says they are. But given his habit of retconning and rewriting stories on the fly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he decides one day to toss them all out the window and declare that, No, they're not really canon after all.
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Date: 2009-11-26 12:03 am (UTC)I chose Spike and Angel comics, though that wasn't really the answer I meant. Nearly any comic penned by Brian Lynch that involves Spike and/or Angel is great (even though I hope he quits that whole Spider arc cause vomit).
I could buy AU/futuristic Xander as being Twilight. From what I hear, future Willow is killed by Buffy, right? Not sure what's going on in the comics, but I think that one thing will always hold true, regardless of medium if it involves Xander--Willow will always be the most important thing in the world to him.
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Date: 2009-11-26 12:59 am (UTC)I stopped reading around the time Harmony somehow became a celebrity and everyone learned about vampires. This just did not work for me. Also, around that time my bookstore stopped carrying them, though I guess I could have gone out of my way to find them.
I remember the Twilight thing. I think it ran through my head that it might be Riley for some weird reason.
I'm not actually comics savy enough to know the difference between Dark Horse and IDW, but none of the bookstores around here had access to any of the Angel comics (for some weird reason every single bookstore here thinks comics are for Jughead and Archie type stuff only), though from the little I heard, the Angel After the Fall ones would be something I'd read.
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Date: 2009-11-26 05:49 am (UTC)All told, though, I voted for Drusilla.
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Date: 2009-11-26 10:45 am (UTC)I voted for Dru, she needs to come back, pleeeease!
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Date: 2009-11-26 12:46 pm (UTC)Although It's 'canon' in that It's penned by Joss, I have to say that I'm quite stunned by how awful the whole thing has been so far. I found it overly long, badly paced, and horribly illustrated.
To make matters worse there's so many gaps both in both logic and any kind of back story that I can't take this thing seriously If I tried.
I'm so, so pleased that flaming Darkhorse didn't get their grubby hands on Spike and Angels characters as I dread to think of what they might have done to them. *shudder*
The only thing that keeps me reading is to find out who the hell Twilight is, and thats taken so bloody long that whole plot angle is getting old real quick.
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Date: 2009-11-26 01:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-11-26 08:54 pm (UTC)As for the rest of the questions... I'm paralyzed with not caring very much. Am still mildly interested to know who Twilight is, in a gossipy, by-the-water-cooler sort of way. If I weren't already bunches of issues behind, I'm pretty sure the "Buffy can fly!" revelation would have made me stop reading. Dawn/Xander/Buffy strikes me as writers grasping at straws, and anyway I hate triangles. So.
no subject
Date: 2009-11-30 02:18 am (UTC)