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shadowkat1. Nicholas Brendan according to the SlayAlive post does not like the Dawn/Xander pairing.
In related news, at Hallowhedon, Brendan revealed that he and Gellar talked about Xander and Buffy getting together and pitched it. Whedon said no. And apparently Whedon had planned on killing Xander off in S7, but the other writers talked him out of it - stating the fans would be *really* upset, *vehementally* upset.
They weren't wrong about that - but it does bring up a question that I'd like to throw out there: Should fans have a say in the plotting, etc of a story? Should the writers have convinced Whedon to cater to their fans? Should it matter that it would upset the fans if a character was killed or a beloved character did a horrible thing? Should a writer EVER cater to his or her fans? And if so, when? And to what extent would catering hurt the story? And what extent does this kill the reality of the story - after all people we love do die, and people we love do horrible things - to what extent should writing reflect that reality and to what extent should it merely entertain and comfort?
Okay that's a lot of questions. I don't know what I think on this right now. I really don't. I know that I wish sometimes the writer would ignore the fans, but other times, I don't. I can argue it both ways to be honest. So feel free to persuade, discuss, etc!
As a sub-thread of that question - to what extent has the internet changed how fans can affect the writing/plot of a tv show, novel, or movie? Is this a good thing, bad thing, or neutral thing??
2. James Marsters on youtube did a really interesting bit on kissing on camera - how difficult it is to do well, how awkward, and how much you have to trust your partner. He said if you do it for pleasure - it looks horrible. So you never enjoy it. And if he had to choose anyone to do it with again it would be John Barrowman - who went out of his way to make Marsters comfortable. Marsters also gives some great hints on how to keep a guy from mauling you - which I already knew but are quite useful - sneeze, step on his foot, elbow him in the gut.
3. Apparently Caprica has three cameras, a bit budget, and is scarey - with great scripts.
Marsters plays a terrorist that everyone is terrified of, and he's been told he's doing rather well. Hmm. Okay, that and the trailer and Eric Stolz is making me really look forward to Caprica. (Of course it helps that I love Espenson's tv writing, and adored BSG).
4. Apparently Georges Jeanty is better at drawing Joss Whedon than Sarah Michelle Gellar, who knew? (Brad Metzler's blog has a picture of Whedon and Buffy together drawn by Jeanty.)
In related news, at Hallowhedon, Brendan revealed that he and Gellar talked about Xander and Buffy getting together and pitched it. Whedon said no. And apparently Whedon had planned on killing Xander off in S7, but the other writers talked him out of it - stating the fans would be *really* upset, *vehementally* upset.
They weren't wrong about that - but it does bring up a question that I'd like to throw out there: Should fans have a say in the plotting, etc of a story? Should the writers have convinced Whedon to cater to their fans? Should it matter that it would upset the fans if a character was killed or a beloved character did a horrible thing? Should a writer EVER cater to his or her fans? And if so, when? And to what extent would catering hurt the story? And what extent does this kill the reality of the story - after all people we love do die, and people we love do horrible things - to what extent should writing reflect that reality and to what extent should it merely entertain and comfort?
Okay that's a lot of questions. I don't know what I think on this right now. I really don't. I know that I wish sometimes the writer would ignore the fans, but other times, I don't. I can argue it both ways to be honest. So feel free to persuade, discuss, etc!
As a sub-thread of that question - to what extent has the internet changed how fans can affect the writing/plot of a tv show, novel, or movie? Is this a good thing, bad thing, or neutral thing??
2. James Marsters on youtube did a really interesting bit on kissing on camera - how difficult it is to do well, how awkward, and how much you have to trust your partner. He said if you do it for pleasure - it looks horrible. So you never enjoy it. And if he had to choose anyone to do it with again it would be John Barrowman - who went out of his way to make Marsters comfortable. Marsters also gives some great hints on how to keep a guy from mauling you - which I already knew but are quite useful - sneeze, step on his foot, elbow him in the gut.
3. Apparently Caprica has three cameras, a bit budget, and is scarey - with great scripts.
Marsters plays a terrorist that everyone is terrified of, and he's been told he's doing rather well. Hmm. Okay, that and the trailer and Eric Stolz is making me really look forward to Caprica. (Of course it helps that I love Espenson's tv writing, and adored BSG).
4. Apparently Georges Jeanty is better at drawing Joss Whedon than Sarah Michelle Gellar, who knew? (Brad Metzler's blog has a picture of Whedon and Buffy together drawn by Jeanty.)
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Date: 2009-11-13 10:23 am (UTC)It it had been up to me, Buffy and Xander would've been together from the get go. Then we wouldn't have had the Angel, Riley and Spike goodness that followed, so listening to me would've been a really bad move. I think authors should have the freedom to take us on a journey that we're not always comfortable with but I have to draw the line with getting involved with someone you used to baby-sit. And I also don't see the emotional reality of the pairing either.
Maybe someone has some ideas on that?
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Date: 2009-11-13 05:44 pm (UTC)Just finished reading the latest Buffy comic and gotta agree with Nick Brendon - D/X is squick-ville. Isn't she still underage? While I like the fact that Joss messes around with us and doesn't cater to what we want, that just goes too far for me.
There's actually a bit of discussion regarding it in the thread of comments regarding my review of the comic - several posts ago. But I won't make you thread through all of it.
The gist is that there really is only 5 years between the two of them, if that. Buffy was about 21 in Season 6 and Dawn turned 16 that same year. She says she's 16 in S7, in S6 - she's 15, and in Season 4, 14 on the verge of 15. (Of course in reality, Nicholas Brendan was not 21 but 32 when the series ended and Michelle Trachenburg was 17...but that was similar to Cordy and Connor - who were 32 and 17 respectively.) On the Tv show - Dawn is in some respects following in big sis's footsteps. All of Buffy's boyfriends were much older. Angel - 247 years (turned at 26), Spike (129 years or turned at 26/29), Riley at least five years, Wood at least 10 years. Also actor wise - there was an age gap - Gellar was 17/18 when the show began, Brendan was 25/26, Boreanze 26/27, Marsters 32...
Is she of age? Well, assuming this is taking place after Angel S5 or a year after Chosen. I'd say Dawn is probably 18.
And Xander is 23. Basically the same age difference between Buffy and Riley, when Buffy was dating/boinking him.
On a more interesting meta level - or why is Whedon doing this?
My guess is Daddy issues. Both women have been abandoned by their father. Dawn earlier than Buffy, and Dawn to our knowledge has never really had the stable male role model outside of maybe Xander. (hence the squick - because in some respects Dawn saw Xander, Giles and Spike as her fathers...depending on the Season. Xander was of the three the most consistent and present.) It's why Buffy gravitated towards Angel (Angel falls for and pursues Buffy when she is 15. She falls for him at 16. She sleeps with him when she's turning 17.)
And when Angel leaves -she gravitates towards men who are older, with few exceptions (Scott Hope and Owen).
I think Joss went there with Xander/Dawn for much the same reasons he goes there with Cordy/Connor and Angel/Buffy's reaction is similar. I think we are supposed to be horrified in somewhat the same way Buffy is horrified. But it is also, like it was with Cordelia and Connor - a mirror to Buffy's own behavior and Angel's. Angel can't really complain about Cordy with Connor - considering he went after Buffy. Anymore than Buffy can chastise Dawn for going after Xander. It feels very ironic to me and Whedon excells at irony.
It it had been up to me, Buffy and Xander would've been together from the get go. Then we wouldn't have had the Angel, Riley and Spike goodness that followed, so listening to me would've been a really bad move.
Not to mention Xander/Cordelia or Anya. ;-) Hee. No, as I tried to explain to people online at the time: fiction writing rule of thumb - particularly when it comes to horror stories like Buffy, with just four lead characters and everyone else as romantic supporting - do not put the leads together in a romantic relationship - it limits your writing options, and can make your story formulaic and predictable. Unless of course you are planning on killing one of them - which is what Whedon did in Serenity and would have done here. If he put Xander and Buffy together - Xander would have died or been turned into a vampire - much like he did to Cordy once he put her and Angel together, she'd have had more longevity if she had just stayed Angel's friend. Whedon is definitely not a romance writer. ;-)