On LJ anyway. On Whedonesque they appear to be the majority.
one of the many reasons I currently ignore and avoide whedonesque. ;-)
the whole canon thing gives me a headache. But I hear Star Trek is worse.
whoever it was who wrote that Buffy's dream issue blundering in.
Long-time marvel scribe Jeff Loeb. The guy who ruined Heroes.
Lynch said Spike was sad because he sees Angel as a white knight and he wants to be one too.
That doesn't mean Angel is a hero to Lynch. I mean, I'd say the same thing about Spike and I don't think of Angel as a hero. That's Spike's perception. Nor does it mean that Spike isn't a hero, just that Spike doesn't perceive himself as a hero - which makes sense, Spike has a lot of bravado, but he tends to think poorly of himself, while Angel thinks he's the cat's pajamas or all that - that the world revolves around him. Angel's the one with the big giant ego, Spike's the one with the bravado...who surprises everyone by his heroic actions, while we expect Angel to be the hero because Angel tells us over and over and over again he is.
If Lynch thought of Angel as the big hero - he would not have done what he did with Gunn. Gunn again is the mirror image of Angel in the comics. Big giant ego - convinced he's the hero, convinced the shanshue is his, and everyone else is too..but look between the lines? Everyone and I mean everyone that Angel friends or loves is either killed, turned into a monster, or defeated in a horrible way. White Knight's in noir are well not really White Knight's.
It's ironic Spike wants to be Angel, wants to be a hero like Angel - when the comics demonstrated that Spike was actually the more selfless of the two and the hero. He saved those people, without getting recognition. He didn't battle all the monsters and put them in jeopardy. He joined and helped Angel, to help Illyria and Angel. (I'm talking about After the Fall - haven't picked up part two of the Spike-Angel comic as of yet, so can't comment directly on it.) The irony is the more heroic of the two, doesn't see himself as heroic, and the least heroic thinks he's the big giant hero and so does everyone else. Just as it is ironic that he wants the shanshu, but if he got it, he wouldn't want it...he always hates it when he gets it. That's the noir verse. But I guess perception varies and we all read what we want to into it...(shrugs). At any rate if you are right - than Angel isn't an noir comic, but just a straight hero comic, which I admit is rather boring. But I haven't been seeing that except in the Kelly Armstrong comics - which I avoided as unreadable.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2009-12-01 05:49 pm (UTC)one of the many reasons I currently ignore and avoide whedonesque. ;-)
the whole canon thing gives me a headache. But I hear Star Trek is worse.
whoever it was who wrote that Buffy's dream issue blundering in.
Long-time marvel scribe Jeff Loeb. The guy who ruined Heroes.
Lynch said Spike was sad because he sees Angel as a white knight and he wants to be one too.
That doesn't mean Angel is a hero to Lynch. I mean, I'd say the same thing about Spike and I don't think of Angel as a hero. That's Spike's perception. Nor does it mean that Spike isn't a hero, just that Spike doesn't perceive himself as a hero - which makes sense, Spike has a lot of bravado, but he tends to think poorly of himself, while Angel thinks he's the cat's pajamas or all that - that the world revolves around him. Angel's the one with the big giant ego, Spike's the one with the bravado...who surprises everyone by his heroic actions, while we expect Angel to be the hero because Angel tells us over and over and over again he is.
If Lynch thought of Angel as the big hero - he would not have done what he did with Gunn. Gunn again is the mirror image of Angel in the comics.
Big giant ego - convinced he's the hero, convinced the shanshue is his, and everyone else is too..but look between the lines? Everyone and I mean everyone that Angel friends or loves is either killed, turned into a monster, or defeated in a horrible way. White Knight's in noir are well not really White Knight's.
It's ironic Spike wants to be Angel, wants to be a hero like Angel - when the comics demonstrated that Spike was actually the more selfless of the two and the hero. He saved those people, without getting recognition. He didn't battle all the monsters and put them in jeopardy. He joined and helped Angel, to help Illyria and Angel. (I'm talking about After the Fall - haven't picked up part two of the Spike-Angel comic as of yet, so can't comment directly on it.) The irony is the more heroic of the two, doesn't see himself as heroic, and the least heroic thinks he's the big giant hero and so does everyone else. Just as it is ironic that he wants the shanshu, but if he got it, he wouldn't want it...he always hates it when he gets it.
That's the noir verse. But I guess perception varies and we all read what we want to into it...(shrugs).
At any rate if you are right - than Angel isn't an noir comic, but just a straight hero comic, which I admit is rather boring. But I haven't been seeing that except in the Kelly Armstrong comics - which I avoided as unreadable.